Act Like Men

Men’s Leadership Podcast

#11: Six Step Ministry to Men Engagement Process – Part 2

Act Like Men - Episode cover
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August 4, 2022

Show Notes

The Reality: Only 1% of men in most churches are actively engaged in the local ministry to men. In addition, ~10% of churches in America can sustain a ministry to their men over the long term. One more stat that is a wake-up call on our priority of time and resource allocation: 93% of the time, when a man comes to faith in Christ, his family will follow.

The Reason:  Few churches in North America have a clear strategy and process to intentionally grow their men, and to build in processes that will sustain this ministry for the long term. Men’s Ministry Catalyst (MMC) has a strategic Six Steps to Engagement strategy that has worked for hundreds of churches across North America. In this podcast we will walk thru the next  two steps: Step Three: Full Assessment, for all of the men in your church and Step Four: Developing an Action Plan. For the podcast on Steps One and Two, pull up podcast #10 on our website:  Podcast Episodes Archive – Men’s Ministry Catalyst

The Resources: On our website are several resources that are helpful in this journey – and they are free. 1) The full graph on the full Six Step Engagement strategy (feel free to print that off) Men’s Ministry Development Process – Men’s Ministry Catalyst (;  2) Fill out a short survey to help you determine where your ministry to men is today in your local church: Men’s Ministry Assessment – Men’s Ministry Catalyst ( One more resource that MMC will make available to you. We will offer an hour-long strategy consultation completely free; 3) For the Free Session of consulting, please reach out: and we will get back to your shortly to schedule our time together.

The Result: When this simple, but not easy process is followed, you are way down the path of building an engaging ministry with your men, that will have an impact for generations yet to be born – Psalm 78:6. Our prayer is that you will be a catalyst for your local church to build out this engaging ministry within your congregation.

In your opinion, how much difference is where the leadership thinks the men are verses where the men would say they are? The full church assessment for men, gives the men a chance to share where they are in the spiritual journey, what they see their needs are, and what their social desires are as part of the ministry to men.

Are you aware of a strategic plan for the ministry to men in your church?

How can we help you and your church ensure long term growth in your ministry to men?


00:00:00:12 – 00:00:36:05
Wendell Morton
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Act Like Men, Men’s Leadership Podcast. This is a podcast designed to be a resource for pastors and men’s ministry leaders as they build out an engaging ministry with their men. We do this for one simple reason because every man deserves an opportunity to become an authentic, biblically based man of God. Act like men. Men’s Leadership Podcast is sponsored by Men’s Ministry Catalyst Ministry in its 41st year, designed to do exactly what we just talked about.

00:00:37:03 – 00:00:51:02
Wendell Morton
Well, good day, everyone. My name is Wendell Morten, I am the executive director of Men’s Ministry Catalyst. So good to have you with us today. And again, I want to introduce you to my co-host, Dale Eudy. Dale, phenomenal experience. A great partner. Thanks for joining us again today. Dale.

00:00:51:08 – 00:00:58:15
Dale Eudy
Always great to be with you. The topics we take on are the topics of men today, and I love that too.

00:00:58:15 – 00:01:24:10
Wendell Morton
Yeah, absolutely right. We want to we want to be able to reach men where they are and help local churches build an infrastructure that will create what we’re trying to do. Well, last time we talked on Session ten about the first two steps of a six step process. Today, we’re we’re moving forward with steps three and four. They want to set the stage for us, if you don’t mind.

00:01:24:16 – 00:01:46:04
Dale Eudy
So sounds good. Well, if you’ll remember on our last podcast, the problem we really talked about as being it’s the challenging problem that it is. And here it is. Only 1% of men in most churches are actively engaged in their local church ministry. In addition to that, 10% of churches in America really can sustain a ministry to their men over the long term.

00:01:46:22 – 00:02:13:20
Dale Eudy
That tells us that we’re starting in the ground in below ground level. We really need to get something out of the ground to build that. That’s right. One more stat. I think that is a wake up call is a priority of our time and resource allocation. You know, 93% of the time when a man comes to faith in Christ, his family will follow that leadership potential of that godly man who leads well with the servant.

00:02:13:21 – 00:02:26:18
Dale Eudy
Leadership heart brings his family to Christ and leads them forward. What a great ministry. 93%. Let’s keep that one in mind. By the way, if you missed episode number ten window, what can they do to catch up with us?

00:02:27:09 – 00:02:50:01
Wendell Morton
Well, first they just go to the website of Men’s Ministry Catalyst dot org for Life podcast and there’s a listing of all of our podcasts. But I really encourage you, if you’ve not listened to Steps one or two, which are really critical pieces, Pastor’s Vision in developing a men’s counsel, those are fundamental to what we’re trying to do.

00:02:50:08 – 00:03:12:16
Wendell Morton
Just take 15 minutes. Go listen to it either now or sometime later. But again, it’s just men’s mystery catalogs dot org, forward slash podcast and it’s number ten. Now we know the reason that we’re trying to do this, Dale, is very few churches in North America have a clear strategy. You just listed 10% can sustain it. Only 1% of men are actively involved.

00:03:13:03 – 00:03:39:17
Wendell Morton
So the need is great. It’s outstanding. This was the catalyst of the years developed a six step to engagement strategy that works for hundreds of churches across North America. It’s a simple, not easy, but simple process to help develop a strong and strategic ministry where you look at steps three and four today. Step three, complete a full assessment.

00:03:40:06 – 00:03:55:02
Wendell Morton
This is an evaluation assessment for all the men in your church. And then step four, out of that assessment, you’re going to develop an action plan. You’re going to do that from the data received in the assessment.

00:03:55:02 – 00:04:19:07
Dale Eudy
You know, it’s a key part for the step number three to have this full assessment of the men in your church. We’re reminded in Proverbs 1522 that plans fall for lack of counsel, but with many advisors, they succeed. Now, again, we all know the fact that you can gather people around that will give you input. But getting the right input based on the right data is a key part of that.

00:04:19:07 – 00:04:24:00
Dale Eudy
So when the why is it important that we begin with the assessment? What’s the key part there?

00:04:24:20 – 00:04:45:02
Wendell Morton
Well, I think any time you’re going to go somewhere, if you could take a trip, car trip, the question always comes up is, where are we starting from? We start from home. Or if we go to where we’re going to go the next step, where do we go? Beyond that, you have to really understand where you are to develop your process to where you’re going to go and what you’re trying to accomplish.

00:04:45:14 – 00:05:15:06
Wendell Morton
What it does. So it gives your men a chance to share with you where they are. So you start from the reality of where they say they are versus where you think they are. We’ve seen in many churches where men’s leaders, pastors thought that their core group of guys were know X and with what’s the assessment where they feel they could share their heart with their leadership on what their needs are, what they’d like to accomplish.

00:05:15:14 – 00:05:28:17
Wendell Morton
It wasn’t X at all. It was Y or is W something much different. And it gave them a chance to really form a strategy based on the needs of the men that they’re trying to ministered to and through.

00:05:28:21 – 00:05:43:10
Dale Eudy
You know, such an incredible insight there, Wendell. Again, you have to know where you’re beginning, if you’re going to take that first step any place. So tell me, what are the parts or what’s in the assessment? What are the what are the main things that we need to really be aware of in that assessment?

00:05:44:00 – 00:06:07:11
Wendell Morton
Great question, Dale. There’s there’s two areas that we really focus on. The first is the spiritual, and it could be as simple as I want to learn how to have a daily devotional life. I want to learn how to pray with my wife. Yeah. I want to understand why the Bible is the word of God can be as simple as things like that.

00:06:07:19 – 00:06:33:08
Wendell Morton
It could be just it’s still a spiritual world. It could be exposing an addiction that they have. And we know that 51% of the men and I think that’s that’s low, but 51% men inside and outside the church struggle photography for one, let alone alcohol, drugs, prescription drugs, other things that are going on in their life that they want help with and need a place where they can be open and honest about what’s going on.

00:06:33:23 – 00:06:57:20
Wendell Morton
So those are critical things on the spiritual side. It helps you as a leader develop a path to to take your man from where they are to where they really want to go. The second thing is the affinity groups. Now, affinity groups are groups that come around something like golfing, hunting, fishing, motorcycling trips, hiking, bicycle riding, whatever happens to be.

00:06:58:07 – 00:07:20:18
Wendell Morton
And this allows guys to be shoulder to shoulder. It gives an onramp for men who have developed things that they really love to do to bring their non believing friends. It’s it’s non-threatening to go on a hunting trip a day. It’s non-threatening, take a motorcycle ride with a group of guys. It’s non-threatening, take a bicycle or go hiking or something like that.

00:07:21:04 – 00:07:27:21
Wendell Morton
And hopefully in the middle of some of that, there’s enough sharing of the faith that it opens the doors on a few things. So those two, it’s really critical.

00:07:27:21 – 00:07:30:15
Dale Eudy
As you say, that’s where the bonds of friendship really develop, don’t they?

00:07:31:01 – 00:07:33:13
Wendell Morton
Yeah, they do. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:07:34:03 – 00:07:47:20
Dale Eudy
Well, you know, when obviously there are some new, I think, technology and things that are available over the last ten years, certainly, but there’s at least a couple of different ways to gather this information. What are your tips? What would you encourage churches, men’s groups to do?

00:07:48:09 – 00:08:11:02
Wendell Morton
Yeah, we see two that are really predominant and one is SurveyMonkey. They can send their guys a link, both their core guys, any guy they have an access to from an email, a link that takes them probably 10 minutes to fill out a survey. The results come back. We have the ability to analyze that and come up with some awesome, great opportunities as a result.

00:08:11:13 – 00:08:39:14
Wendell Morton
There is the good old fashioned paper, but so if you’re sitting in front of 20 guys, is your normal or 50 or 100, whatever your normal is, or five. And you know, guys, if they don’t get it done right now, they’re probably not going to get it done. So participation goes way up. If you just print it out, put it in front of them, ask them to fill it out, get it back, and then we can consolidate that information as well and give them the kind of reports that are very, very important.

00:08:40:03 – 00:09:01:16
Wendell Morton
We walk away basically with things as simple as top three recommendations that guys may have come up with, 20 things that they want to do or want to learn but can’t do 20 things. Right. You can do one thing, then you do another thing, then you do another thing. So we identify like the top three that we make recommendations on.

00:09:01:18 – 00:09:07:01
Wendell Morton
In addition, we’ll make a handful of observations as well that that helps them as they’re trying to move forward.

00:09:07:07 – 00:09:24:00
Dale Eudy
But that really becomes your first few steps right there, because once you boil that down and get it in the identify themself and it starts giving you at least the first plans of attack, if you will, of what you’re going to do going forward. What you want is through maybe some of the musts that come out of that.

00:09:24:01 – 00:09:24:06
Dale Eudy

00:09:24:23 – 00:09:40:09
Wendell Morton
Yeah. I think there’s a handful of things to keep in mind. I’ve just limited the three here. But first thing is, you’ve got to follow through on what you’ve committed to with the men. So if you have a group of men that open themselves up, they share the survey. You want them to know, what do you do with that?

00:09:40:11 – 00:09:58:14
Wendell Morton
What I gave you? And so you’ve got to communicate what’s going on. You’ve got to follow through and make sure you’re ready to activate all the things that they talked about otherwise, the next time you try to do it, then I can trust you. They’re not going to participate. They’ll think you’re really serious. The second thing is communicate clearly what your roadmap is.

00:09:58:23 – 00:10:23:05
Wendell Morton
So if you have ten things that are really identified, again, you can’t do ten, but you could do it to the top one, two or three and then communicate with them. Listen, these were the most pressing needs. We’ll get to yours. And by the way, if there’s a man who needs immediate help, plug him in somewhere. Pastoral counseling, a local counselor, addiction recovery, whatever it happens to be, plug him in.

00:10:23:15 – 00:10:40:14
Wendell Morton
Marriage counseling, parenting, where he’s got a pressing need that’s urgent. And you’re not going to be able to get to a very, very quickly. And then the third thing is make sure it’s a safe place for men to be open and vulnerable, guard their trust highly, very, very highly.

00:10:40:15 – 00:10:41:14
Dale Eudy
What a key point.

00:10:42:09 – 00:10:46:20
Wendell Morton
Yeah, absolutely. Well, this is the model. What’s going on with step four?

00:10:47:01 – 00:11:05:15
Dale Eudy
Step four? We get into that when that’s really coming up with that action plan. We’ve got the beginnings of it. The assessment is giving us at least some ideas where we need to start focusing our attention. But now we start putting that action plan together. And from the data you received in that full assessment, you boil it all down and you what do you do with it?

00:11:05:15 – 00:11:07:08
Dale Eudy
What’s the first thing that you want to do?

00:11:08:02 – 00:11:31:19
Wendell Morton
Yep. So there’s always the temptation for guys, for men to go big or go home kind of thing. And so, you know, they say, oh, we got this all back, go. We’re going to go change the world. Well, yeah, you kind of fizzle out after a little while because you can’t you can’t change everything all at once. So you start small and you make sure that you’re communicating correctly.

00:11:31:19 – 00:11:53:13
Wendell Morton
But there’s nothing worse than getting men of your church excited and then have nothing really come up as a follow through. So you’ve got to start with understanding what the data tells you, understand what you know about your men, and then begin to put your plan together to meet the needs that the men have expressed that are aligned with the vision we talked about earlier when we’re trying to accomplish what the church is trying to accomplish overall.

00:11:53:19 – 00:12:21:08
Dale Eudy
And, you know, Men’s Ministry Catalyst is ready to make an important contribution in those initial steps as well to take that data, get the summary summary report from us, and then to begin and build that minimum of 12 to 18 month, that roadmap, it really will provide the step by step principles for the Leadership Council. You know, it really begins with everyone’s buy in and input to create the best possible plan for ministry.

00:12:21:16 – 00:12:24:20
Dale Eudy
So it’s a it’s a team sport really when it comes down to putting.

00:12:24:23 – 00:12:25:06
Wendell Morton

00:12:25:06 – 00:12:36:02
Dale Eudy
And together. And it takes it takes guys that look at this put their heart and soul into it and really give it the critical needs that it has to have to get started.

00:12:36:02 – 00:12:55:08
Wendell Morton
I think the key that you talked about, 12 to 18 months where you’ve got to begin to put a plan together that’s bigger than the next Saturday morning breakfast, bigger than the next men’s Bible study. What you don’t know what the topic is going to be bigger than the next retreat or advance or whatever you call it, where you’re trying to do kind of a standalone event with a group of guys over a weekend.

00:12:55:20 – 00:13:02:10
Wendell Morton
It’s got to be bigger than that. You’ve got to know why you’re doing what you’re doing, and then you have the ability to execute flawlessly.

00:13:03:02 – 00:13:25:07
Dale Eudy
You know, and then you put those bones together, get some structures in place. Yeah. Because if this is going to be sustained, it’s not going to be out of emotions or it’s not going to be a completely it’s got to become organic. It’s got to become real in life. Exactly what the structure needs to be there. And you don’t want to overlook putting in some very key places in there how we’re going to put this in place.

00:13:25:17 – 00:13:31:04
Dale Eudy
Who’s in charge? What’s our what’s our mark of of progress in here?

00:13:31:04 – 00:13:32:08
Wendell Morton
How do we yep, yep.

00:13:32:18 – 00:13:34:02
Dale Eudy
Those are all key points.

00:13:34:22 – 00:13:55:16
Wendell Morton
They really are. Dale, I love what you said about the team sport so many times. You know, especially in smaller churches, a guy will get, you know, assigned the task of becoming the men’s leader. And what he thinks he has to do is do it all itself. And so he takes it all in about 12 to 18 months later, he’s burnt out.

00:13:55:22 – 00:14:27:08
Wendell Morton
Yep. Is absolutely burned out because he’ll make it a team sport. So it’s really, really critical. Well, let me let me wrap up, Dale, with a couple of key points like we get on step three. First of all, keep in mind, whatever you don’t do, it’s excellence. You want your men to be proud of what you do the best food, the best speakers, the best music, the best small group, whatever it is you want the guys, if you have a guest speaker, if you’re doing a fishing or whatever it is, dude with excellence, don’t just do it half baked, y’all couples.

00:14:27:11 – 00:14:51:08
Wendell Morton
We’ll figure it out. That doesn’t work. That doesn’t work over the long haul. It works in the short term. Doesn’t work in the long term. So do whatever you do. Do it excellence and evaluate what you’re doing. Start small, build consistently. We talked again before. Guys are tempted to do that, go big or go home kind of mentality and what is really is really brought home more often that we go big.

00:14:51:08 – 00:15:12:03
Wendell Morton
So I really encourage you to start small. You take this data and identify together top three and begin to put a plan together because guess what? You’ve got the rest of your life, you’re trying to build a lifetime of character in the lives of these men. Not in a month, not in a semester, not in a year. It’s a lifetime commitment.

00:15:12:03 – 00:15:42:07
Wendell Morton
So start small but build consistently, spread the wealth is number three. And what I mean by that is you don’t have to be expert. Talk about the guy who burns out every 12, 18 months. You don’t have to be the expert. That’s the team sport. And if you don’t have the expertize on the team, I’ll bet you’ve got it in the church or the community and finally bring them in, make a part of it, find the experts who can really help you build with excellence whatever you’re doing and the build out a plan that your men will be excited about and proud of.

00:15:43:00 – 00:16:09:17
Wendell Morton
We, the men love to go somewhere. I mean, they they are mission minded. So if they can see what we’re trying to accomplish over the next 12 to 18 months or beyond, they really, really get excited. You talk about the benchmarks. Make sure your benchmark is along the way. And just the last one, just to try to wrap up this this particular piece, but maintain flexibility with your robust plan.

00:16:09:17 – 00:16:31:08
Wendell Morton
Sometimes we get so structured that we we miss an opportunity to be flexible on some need or some opportunity that comes up that we could rally our men to. But don’t give up the robust plan. At the same time, it’s a combination of, you know, listen to God, God, the spirit helping help you accomplish what you believe you need to do for the needs are met.

00:16:31:19 – 00:16:32:05
Dale Eudy
Well, you know.

00:16:32:05 – 00:16:33:05
Wendell Morton
These are great steps.

00:16:33:11 – 00:16:58:00
Dale Eudy
Yeah, well, you know, through all this, when we’ve been talking about obviously steps and things that men’s ministry leaders can do in the great the great thing to remember here is men’s ministry catalyst is here. We’re ready to help and encourage you through these things. We’ve got some great resources on the website for Men’s Ministry Catalyst. Walk us through a few of those key ones that that are open and everybody can use them three specifically.

00:16:58:00 – 00:17:21:18
Wendell Morton
Dale, thanks for asking that question. First is the full graph of these six step engagement strategy. I know we’re talking, you’re here, you get some show notes, but the graph gives you all six steps all in one place. So it’s free. Jump on the websites printable, grab it and use it as a road map. Second, there is a short survey to help you determine where your ministry to men is today.

00:17:22:01 – 00:17:39:19
Wendell Morton
I’m not talking the full assessment that you go to, that you go to your men, but where do you as a leadership council, as a pastor, as a men’s leader, where do you believe we are? There’s a short survey that I would encourage you to to fill out as well. Yet all of these are on the website and I have we’ll have links in the show notes.

00:17:40:04 – 00:18:07:13
Wendell Morton
And the last one is we will make available to you men’s ministry catalyst as our long strategy call to help you after you have identified where you believe your men’s ministry limit is and then where you would like to go. We can walk you through some basic steps to get you started. It’s absolutely free. We are committed to helping you reach the men of your church, so that’s a critical factor.

00:18:07:13 – 00:18:33:09
Dale Eudy
You know, with all of all the things that Men’s Ministry Catalyst puts in to men’s ministry, I think this last thing that you’ve just offered is probably among the best. It’s that that link to a ministry that is rooted and founded in how to build men into full disciples of Christ. And I think by having that consultation available, it’s ready to go at any time, which are ready to do it now.

00:18:33:10 – 00:18:35:11
Dale Eudy
What a wonderful gift to the churches.

00:18:35:13 – 00:18:37:19
Wendell Morton
We thank you. We love it.

00:18:38:02 – 00:19:04:16
Dale Eudy
You know, while I know this process can sometimes seem simple, it’s not when you follow down the path, it’s it can it literally can take it beyond a ministry to almost a movement. And I think that’s where you really get traction in any church setting. When the men’s ministry is known for not only what they do on a regular basis, but the broader picture that they represent through the men of their church.

00:19:05:01 – 00:19:23:23
Dale Eudy
You know, some 78 six kind of reminds us that we are trying to impact the generations that are yet to be born. So as much as the strategy might address the next generation of men in that church, you really have to give it some thought that you are actually going to be impacting maybe three and four generations out.

00:19:23:23 – 00:19:34:22
Dale Eudy
If you do this right, you’re going to be providing that kind of anchor point in the faith for these men now to become fathers and grandfathers and great grandmothers.

00:19:35:02 – 00:19:35:15
Wendell Morton
I love it.

00:19:35:20 – 00:19:57:10
Dale Eudy
So wonderful. I love the path that’s there for that. You know, our prayers really that you will be a catalyst for your local church, for all the good that you’re listening to this. All we’re trying to do is to resource you to be a cheerleader in your corner if you need it. But a consultant, if you need that as well, will help you shape and formulate that.

00:19:57:17 – 00:20:02:18
Dale Eudy
But you’re the one that God has placed in ministry in your church. We’re here to back you up and help you.

00:20:03:10 – 00:20:26:08
Wendell Morton
Amen. That’s great, Dave. Great. Great closing on that. I appreciate that as awesome a deal. As always, thanks for your leadership with this podcast and this specific one. But the podcast overall, your background experiences is awesome to be able to share and I thank you for that. It’s a humbling honor to be able to be involved in the lives of men and the the lives yet to be born.

00:20:26:08 – 00:20:45:12
Wendell Morton
As you talked about, much of this material came from books or papers authored by Dr. Jim Grassi, the founder of ministry. Tell us definitely want to give credit where credit is due. Just a quick reminder that our episodes are launched on the first and third Thursdays of every month. If you have not yet subscribed, you can do so on the website.

00:20:46:04 – 00:21:07:21
Wendell Morton
And prior to the episode, the notes, the show notes will be available for you to grab as well. Again, thank you for joining us today. You are the reason we exist. We do all this for pastors, leaders of men, because every man deserves an opportunity to become an authentic biblically based man of God.

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About Wendell Morton

Rev. Morton graduated from Western Evangelical Seminary with a BA in Religious Education and a Master of Counseling Psychology, Rev. Morton was in full-time ministry for 17 years with both small and large churches. He spent four of those ministry years with Promise Keepers. He was the the US representative to PK Canada – serving on the PK Canada Board.

Wendell also spent 23 years in Corporate America. He built and led sales teams that worked with very small businesses and other groups that worked with Fortune 500 companies. He is gifted at helping identifying the next generation of leaders as well as helping those around him being successful.

Rev. Morton has a passion to help pastors and church leaders build growing churches. Having men come alongside the vision of the pastor, build a dynamic team, create a plan, and execute the model of “each one brings one” has been proven effective for more than 2,000 years. This approach is a great way for every local church in North America to grow while helping men better understand biblical manhood.

About Dale Eudy

As an advocate for ministry to men, Dale Eudy brings a combined background of leadership skills developed in the marketplace along with senior leadership experience in the Church.

Following military service, Dale earned his undergraduate degree and gained valuable systems and operations experience working for two prominent Fortune 50 companies. Responding to God’s leading in his life to focus on leaders in the body of Christ, he went on to complete seminary and served as a pastor for 16 years in a large church in the Denver area and as a denominational leader at the regional and national levels. With his background, Dale knows the heartbeat of the local church.

Dale’s passion is the discipleship (spiritual reproduction) of men. That passion is what drew him to partner with Men’s Ministry Catalyst. In his words, “The simple call of Jesus to follow him and to make fishers of men is the most foundational call in my life.” Using his spiritual gifts of leadership and exhortation, Dale is a great coach and cheerleader for those involved in the arenas of life.

Dale and his wife Kathy live in Highlands Ranch, Colorado and serve their home church, Cherry Hills Community Church. They have two grown children and a caring extended family.